Oilpump - wanted

 

-JdK- Leon in Australia is struggling to find a double acting oil pump or some of the associated parts for his Model 25 project, he has the remains of the original pump that snapped the driving shaft.

"I’m hoping there is a second hand one out there somewhere that someone is willing to sell; I managed to borrow one from a generous model 25 oner over here for a short time who is refurbishing their bike and that is what the photo’s are from. So either from both Norton Model 21, Model 25 are the same and I think early Carroll CS1 oil pumps would also be suitable.

If anyone got a spare Oil pump or some parts of the pump from any of these models that they would be willing to sell please contact this website."

Two Nortons and a REX/JAP

 

-SG- I have known Juris Ramba in Latvia for about thirty years and I would say we are good friends.  Over the years he has provided plenty of useful information as well as lending me his Model 25 to participate in the Latvian rally a few years back. Here is a recent message and photos from him which we feel are worth posting.

"In the beginning of September my two sons and I went to the Polish fiva world motorcycle rally. Robert took our 1926 Model 25 and Reinis was on our 1930 Model 18. The Model 25 engine had been fully rebuilt with a newly cast cylinder which I bought in Britain and we machined it at our workshop.

The piston had been cast in Slovakia, the crankpin was bought NOS from a standard Norton and oil ways were erosion cut in it at a local factory. As the old crankshaft had been extensively hammered and out of alignment by 0.30 mm, we decided to make a new crankshaft from scratch. The webs were machined from heat treated steel billets fully adhering to the original measurements, even down to balance drillings. After assembly and testing the run-out which was 0.02 mm the balance factor came out to 67% which is quite good. The engine does not vibrate almost.

The shafts were made from case hardened and tempered 3 % nickel chromium steel, these were ground to 0.04 mm oversize. I bought a liquid nitrogen container from China, filled it up and used to shrink the shafts in cryogenically. To avoid any possibility for the shafts to turn in the webs, holes were erosion cut partly in the shafts and partly in the webs and pins were pressed in to safely secure these. The original drive side shaft had turned in the web in the past, so we chose to be safe rather than sorry.

One new intake valve was cut and machined from a Chevrolet valve which is nickel steel, with chromium plated stem. That was bought from the US. Then we had a look at the plunger oil pump. Its body was hard chrome plated and ground on the od. The inner plunger was made new, tempered and ground to size in our circular grinding machine to obtain minimum clearance in the bore. The old plunger had worn and had a running clearance of 0.04 mm which would not work with hot oil. We got the running clearance  down to 0.005 mm or so. The pump now works as it should and I am happy we paid attention to it, otherwise all the efforts and new parts would be in vain if the pump did not deliver enough oil to the engine components…

Finally upon assembly i found that the roller bearing central sleeve was too tight in the bearing. So i put it in the lathe and ground down 0.02 mm with fine abrasive paper. Thus i avoided seized bearing… 

I measured the crank end play with a piece of plasticine and a shim.

Robert had done 300 kilometres of running in before the rally, going out with the  M25 on early mornings before the summer heat came in. One day the inlet valve spring on model 25 broke. We did not want to take off the cylinder head to replace it, so the old spring was cut with an angle grinder in pieces and removed  and another old spring was fitted. I immediately ordered a batch of new springs from Alberta springs in the UK.

The distance at the rally was 420 kilometres. All 3 machines finished the whole distance."

Things are seldom what they seem ...

 

-SG- ...skim milk masquerades as cream!  So wrote W S Gilbert in the still humorous Gilbert and Sullivan musical H M S Pinafore (first performance 1878). 

 And it seems to me those very words apply to a machine currently advertised on the Car and Classic web site. It is listed as a Model 25 and the restorer has certainly made a lot of effort to make it look like one. But is it?  The engine -  number fully visible in the photos - started life in a Model 21 supplied in March 1927 to dealers Harold Petty in Leicester, who in turn delivered it to their customer, another Leicester resident, later in March. The advertiser (in Italy) kindly gave me the frame number but  it is not the one which started life with this engine in it and frankly I could not find it in the records. But I accept I may have overlooked it. Suffice to say, it is not Model 25 as it is missing the full wrap around magneto support bracket on the front down tube. Other modifications to make it appear more like a Model 25 are the large size oil tank, large size petrol tank with top bleed tap, and LS gearbox - fitted to some Model 25s built to racing specification.  Also the very nicely made leather tank-top tool box. The forks are standard period Webbs and the front brake is a 7" unit by the looks of things. Model 25s had TT Webb forks and an 8" Enfield front hub. Of minor importance, the exhaust valve lifter mechanism fitted is of the type used on same period ES2s and 1929 Model 18/19s and the ML magneto is the wrong type. 

Is it a good looking machine ? Yes!  

I have suggested to the advertiser that he changes his description to 'Replica Model 25' - so far without response.

Is it worth the asking price of Euros 39.500? In my opinion, No! Something a bit over Euros 20.000 perhaps!

Clement Garreau, Model 25 Norton

-JdK- Contributed by Barry, a photo that once belonged to Joe Craig. On the back it states "Garreau, Paris". The Norton is a Model 25, the rider is Clement Garreau and this Norton featured on the site before. Clement didn't like the flexible Norton frames, hence the extra framerails below the engine. Further note the 8" Enfield hub and what seems to be a rev-counter.

Alec Bennett at the 1925 TT

-SG- Kevin was given an album to look through and found this photograph of Alec Bennett after the 1925 TT. Shows off the braced Webb forks which were seemingly only fitted to Bennett's bike. It is signed by Bennett on the back. I once owned the engine from this machine - Norton's 1925 TT machines were fitted with their first semi-dry sump type engine - which was built into a later flat tank frame by a subsequent owner and sold for a vast sum by, I think, Bonhams a few years back. If I remember correctly it was not claimed to be AB's actual bike! Many thanks to Kevin for sharing!

1927 Model 25 Norton - For sale at Verralls

-SG- Ian of Verralls has this very nice and interesting Model 25 Norton for sale. Please find the description below, in Ian's own words:

"I'm bound to say this Model 25 is an excellent piece of kit, as it belongs to my father. He decided to hang up his riding boots about ten years ago but kept his favorite bikes just for company.

He bought the bike from a certain Brian R. Verrall in 1998 in 'as raced' condition. Apparently used on Pendine sands back in the day but no record of the rider. Record shows first owner as a Mr Bleaghs of Cheshire. Earliest owner on the logbook is a Mr Rogers of Birkenhead in 1936. 

It was complete and matching numbers (engine and frame) but in need of an entire rebuild which he undertook. Then used on the road from October 1998.

Unfortunately about five years later the conrod broke during a rally and wrecked the crankcases. These were pretty much beyond repair so we sourced replacement cases numbered 33795. Obviously the old originals have been retained.  I think I still have the original damaged barrel with matching number to the original cases. I do have the two part conrod! Numbers are.

Registered             KA 5915.
First registered      2.2.1927
Frame number       25xxx
Engine number      33xxx now replaced with 33xxx.
Gear box (earlier)  HW29505

The bike is fully documented. The first log book is from 1936 and indicates Model as 'TT Replica'. There is a copy of the works despatch book entry which confirms the details."

Please contact Ian at Verralls when you're interested.

The long arm of co-incidence strikes again!

-SG- Richard - plus very smart 1928 Model 18 - has been in the Isle of Man during the past week for the Classic TT events and other motorcycle-related activities. While there, he was approached by a chap who introduced himself as Mr. Edwards, admired the Norton and then, to Richard's surprise, gave him a couple of copy photos. These show his father or  perhaps grandfather, C J Edwards, on an early twenties 16H and also a 1927 Model 25 he owned later on. As if that was not enough, the engine and frame number of the 16H were written on the back of the photo and the engine number only of the Model 25 (registration number YE1064). Thanks to Richard, scans of the photos are reproduced above.

Armed with this information I have had a look at the records;  the 16H, with engine number 4249 and frame number 6529S dates from around November 1922.  No dealer or end-user details are shown.  But the Model 25, with engine 33383 had frame number 25351 and was unusually fitted with a TT Amac carb.  It is shown as 'specially tuned.' Other variations from standard were the fitting of a Terry saddle, standard carrier and tool bags.  The despatch date is not that clear other than December 1926 and the dealer's name was The Service Co. Ltd, Holborn.  But here we come to the interesting bit - the customer is shown as none other than F Lutyens Beart who took delivery in January 1927.

Let me add an aside here - Roger (thanks!) has uncovered that Beart's full Christian names were actually Herbert Maynard Francis Lutyens. No wonder he just used F. L.  in later life! There may perhaps have been family connection to Sir Edwin Lutyens, the famous architect (1869 -1944).

My small collection of Norton related books includes Clew's biography of Francis Beart, entitled 'A Single Purpose.'  In it, he mentions that Francis obtained and raced a Model 25 in 1927 and better still, a snap of him on the bike at a Crystal Palace event shows the same registration number YE1064 as Mr. Edwards' bike (directly above).

Little did Mr Edwards know that his father's/grandfather's bike was formerly owned by someone as illustrious in Norton racing circles as Francis Beart! Mr. Edwards has no idea of what happened to these machines but if either still exists, Richard has his address and can send on the details.

1927 Model 25 Norton - SOLD

-JdK- Tino in Italy SOLD is selling his 1927 Model 25 Norton. The words below come from Tino: "It is not painted. The engine has been fully restored and runs perfectly. The fuel tank is original Norton as are the Lycette saddle and the ML round magneto. It has a newer Norton girder fork but many parts of the Webb HW and the BB carburetor are available. It arrived in Italy on 10.6.1927. Frame and engine numbers are matching and identify the bike as a Model 25. The currently installed Dell'Orto carburettor is not included."

Contact us when you are interested

Steve Lancefield's bike!

Steve's 1927 Model 25 Norton

Steve in later days

-SG- Steve Lancefield (S S Lancefield ) needs no introduction to those with an interest in racing Nortons - but he is well known primarily as an expert in engine preparation and for his association with Harold Daniell. However, thanks to Roger's investigations, it appears he also competed actively at Brooklands from 1929 to 1934, mounted on a 490cc Norton (no surprise there!).

None the less, prior to his appearances at the track, he rode on the road and it has now come to light, from a careful study of the despatch books by the present owner, that he took delivery of a Model 25 in 1927. This machine has appeared on the site before and is still used regularly. John, its owner, tells me it has extremely highly polished flywheels in it. It also has a Moore type CS1 piston and and at one stage, had a fairly ferocious exhaust cam, the like of which he has never seen before. This has had to be replaced due to shaft breakage but I am hoping for a photo of it in due course.

Those 8" front brakes

-SG- It is generally thought that works Nortons started using the 8" Enfield front brake with the machines used for the 1926 season. However, it seems, from a recent 1925 Ulster photo appearing in Classic Motorcycle (inconveniently spread over two pages - how annoying I find that and so easily remedied!) - that the late '25 Works bikes were also fitted with this brake. That it is not perhaps the best brake of its time is open to discussion but I guess it was a good deal better than the puny 6" affair used on the works bikes earlier in the '25 season.

By chance I was sent a photo (above) a few years back showing a pair of 1925 works bikes, with Bennett and Craig aboard. It was perhaps at an event in France although Bennett's bike has no registration number plate on it and I am told this was compulsory for road racing events in France held on public roads. Be that as it may, it shows very clearly that Craig's bike has the 8 inch brake while Bennett's has the special 6 inch version, with leading brake arm, not seen on production Nortons of the period.

PS; Thanks to Roger, who has been in touch about this posting.  He tells me the photo was taken at Montlhery (the outside of the banking is in the background.)  He goes on to advise that road number plates were not needed for events at Montlhery as the circuit was, of course, not a public road. 

When is a Norton not a Norton ...

-JdK- ... when it is a Garreau; it uses a Model 25 engine. Dodi from Italy found another photo and a clipping from 'Moto Revue' that show Garreau was a fan of Norton engines but did not like the frames.

1927 Flat Tank racer - For sale

-JdK- Let us be absolutely clear: we like this bike. It looks good, we would like to have it in our shed and trash it on the road. We are quite sure it will be lots of fun. Flat tank OHV Nortons are brilliant.

It is for sale at HD Classics in Belgium and the problem is that it is priced at 57.000 euro. The advertiser suggests that the machine is a 'rare 1927 M25 TT racer' that was owned and raced by an Austrian chap named Rupert Karner.

Rupert Karner was not in the same league as Stanley Woods or Jimmie Guthrie and we had to find him on the internet.  Rupert indeed raced motorcycles but he killed himself riding a D.S.H motorcycle on the 20th of May 1928.

Perhaps Rupert had the habit of crashing motorcycles because the engine of this Norton (number 33388) left the factory in a Model 21, delivered on the 30th of March 1927 to the Demont Freres in Switzerland in a frame numbered 26439. The current frame bears number 30195; we cannot find it in the records but it bears all the hallmarks of a Model 18 frame.

Off course it could be true; Rupert obtained a genuine Model 25 Norton in 1927 (which would have been exceptional; few M25s were sold in 1927 before the CS1 arrived), crashed it almost immediately, replaced the frame with a Model 18 frame, found an almost new 1927 Model 21 engine, rebuilt the lot, put it in the shed and killed himself a few months later on a D.S.H motorcycle, whatever that may be.

This bike was on our website before. It was for sale for a hefty 42.500 euro in 2014 in Germany and now has found it's way to Belgium. As usual, each new owner adds a bit to the story and we would not be surprised if it is advertised next year as Stanley's 1927 TT winner.

As said, we like this Norton but it should perhaps be advertised as a '1927 racer replica built from very nice bits by someone in Germany'.

(We would like to thank Vicky of the VMCC library team for double-checking the frame and engine numbers of this motorcycle)

Bennett, 1925 Senior TT Works Norton

-SG- Here's an uncommon shot of Bennett and his 1925 Senior TT Works Norton. Interestingly another photo popped up that was made seconds before or after the other one.

The oil pump adjuster is visible on the oil pump cover (it was simplified in '26 and onwards) and one can see the drooping footrest - damaged when Bennett had a minor 'off' during the event. Note also the front brake - still very small but with brake arm pointing forward. Small or not, I can tell you from personal experience this makes otherwise rather useless small Vintage brakes infinitely better!

ON7170 again

-JdK- Now on YouTube; a British Pathé movie covering the 1926 TT with a few great shots of Stanley Woods and his 1926 mount; this machine featured on this site before.

Below two screenshots from the movie. The first one shows Stanley at the start. At 0:27 there is another Norton in view; a flat tank dry sump machine with racing number 5; is this Joe Craig?

1927 OHV Norton

-JdK- Several persons have enquired about the Norton in these photographs, which has been offered for sale at several German jumbles in the last few weeks. It has been described as a Model 25 and as a "production racer" and the vendor is asking serious money. Simon had a look in the records.

-SG- According to the records the engine is from a Model 21- the original frame number to this engine (333xx) was 264xx and gearbox 93340 (a CS number). This Model 21 was supplied originally to Demont Freres in Switzerland in March '27 and was fitted with standard Webbs (which it still has) and 26 x 325 tyres which look to have been changed for 300 x 21. There is no mention in the records of the 8 inch Enfield front brake which was not a standard fitting for Model 21s nor the large oil tank and chain oil tank. Note that we do not have a frame number and cannot be sure what the frame is; though the typical Model 25 wrap around magneto support lug and the lugs for the oiltank on the rear down tube seem to be absent.

All in all, my view is that it may be a well constructed Model 25 look-alike - though whoever made the fuel tank like that could have been better informed. The correct height of the filler neck is as shown in Juris' Model 25 on which the tank is original. Engine-wise I understand the Model 21 flywheels are cast iron like Model 18s, while Model 25s have steel flywheels like CS1s/ES2s.

1927 Model 25 Norton

Stanley Woods and the Model 25
pictured in 1989

-JdK- Tino in Italy sent us these pictures of his 1927 Model 25 Norton. He bought it in 1985 in restored condition though he did rebuild the engine himself.

The bike came with old documents, a “Certificato del Registro Italiano” dated 1927 and a “Libretto di Circolazione duplicato” dated 1937. Both documents list the engine- and frame numbers as they are now present on the bike. Unfortunately, the frame and engine number are identical (which is not correct) and Tino informs us that re-numbering of the frame may have been done by the Italian officials when the bike was new.

Tino continues to say he has documents that suggest that this Model 25 participated in the famous “Targa Florio race” in 1927: Sanseverino retired on the second lap while in second position.

Simon checked the engine number against the records and these show: 33XXX Engine Number. 26XXX Frame Number, Model 25.  Magneto Number 11192. Gearbox number 91585. Webb H/W TT forks. Pannier Tanks. Despatched 19/1/27 to the Italian agents Mototecnica.

The M25 probably had a CS gearbox when new. It still carries the CS type gear change mechanism but this can be made to work on an LS box with a few minor changes.

Bert Taylor at the 1925 Senior TT

Bert Taylor and his Norton at the 1925 Senior. The Norton could be a Model 18 or the semi dry sump variant thereof.

Woods' winner ON7170 again!

-JdK- Jacques in France sent this postcard (above) of Stanley and his 1926 ON7170-registered dry sump Norton. An intriguing machine that featured on this website before and probably is his 1926 TT winner. Surprisingly it has a flat tank in the picture above and pannier tanks in the photo below!

The pannier tanks were prone to leakage and perhaps that is why it has a regular racing tank fitted on the occasion above.  For what it is worth, the machine ridden by Alec Bennett in the 1926 TT did not have pannier tanks fitted either.

Model 25 pannier tanks

-SG- The most recent VMCC magazine carries a photo of a nicely restored set of the pannier tanks used on some of the 1926 works machines, and also fitted to quite a few Model 25s during 1927. The shot shows clearly the threaded sockets on the upper surface to accept the metal links which held them together when in place and the skilful tinsmith's work on the inner faces to provide space for the upper frame tube. The two protruding studs on the side faces are to accept the back plate for the George Dance knee grips. Most if not all soldered Norton tanks in the twenties were made by the Birmingham firm Tallboys Manufacturing Co Ltd, of  Thame Road, Witton. Their stamp TMC is usually to be found on the base of the tanks.

c1925 Model 25 Norton

Another old photo of Martin's Model 25, a Norton that featured earlier on these pages. The photo was taken circa 1967. The Norton was sold in 1970.

Martin: "RU1853 is still attached to the Norton and records show it was first registered in August 1925. Strange to think its still out there somewhere, I hope its still being ridden and is not just a museum exhibit, I travelled many miles on it back in the sixties and for a period it was my sole means of transport. I would love to receive any news, particularly present whereabouts!"