1925 dry sump Nortons

This is Jimmy Shaw at the 1925 Ulster Grand Prix on his OHV Norton; note the strange combination of an early dry-sump lubrication and the cable-operated handpump, just visible above his knee. The (rather poor) photo below shows Jimmy on the same motorcycle leading Alec Bennett on a similar Norton. Of particular interest to me, note the underside of the petrol tanks! This looks very similar to the extension as fitted to the tank of my 1927 racer project.

Roger's comments: "This picture is quite a find. The (dry sump) Model 25 was the production version of the 1926 TT winning machine so I don't think that you can call the Norton in the picture a Model 25. The Model 25 also had a different arrangement for footrest and rear brake mounting. The real significance is that the picture shows one of the "Model 18/19s" prepared for the 1925 TT.

Pat Driscoll was loaned one of the 588cc versions by the works for the sidecar race. He subsequently bought it and converted it to the wet sump system that he favoured. Looking at the pictures of his outfit and the Norton team at the TT I can't see the extension to the tank. The angles make it difficult to be absolutely sure in all cases but one of Pat's outfit shows no sign of it. This means that it was likely to have been fitted for the Ulster as a special tank making it more likely that they would have remained in Northern Ireland hence the Jimmy Shaw connection with at least one part of your 1927 flat tank Norton."

1924 16H Norton

Mail from Stephen in the UK: "Please find attached photograph of a very original 1924 16H Norton"

Jon's 1935 CS1 Norton

Jon from the UK sent me these pics of his 1935 CS1 Norton: "This is my CS1. It’s reliable and fast enough to tour Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man and original enough to win the odd cup at local shows. It hamstrings me a bit as she is not just original period, but original as shipped in September 1935. The numbers all match the dispatch log except for the magdyno (Frame, Engine, Gearbox, Forks, Tank even the (cut down) duck tail on the rear mudguard has matching build numbers)."

A letter by Stanley Woods

In an appealing tale about the first CS1 Norton , Walter Moore claims that his OHC design was first used at the Isle of Man TT circuit in 1927 when the engine had never been tested before. Moore had rushed two fresh CS1 motors to the island, hiring a tugboat to get himself there overnight. Once landed, he faced the challenge of convincing the team mechanic and rider to fit and race the new power plant. By the end of the next day, the 17th of June 1927, the CS1 and Alec Bennett had won the Senior TT by over eight minutes.

While Walter Moore claimed to have rushed the CS1 engines straight from the workshop to the TT, Stanley Woods has another story to tell. Woods was known for his sharpness and vitality in later life, making his comments more than credible.

This contribution is by Simon: ”In his letter (transcript provided below) Woods mentions going to Stuttgart for an event in May 1927 which rather knocks on the head the Walter Moore tale about taking a couple of untried engines over to the IoM for the 1927 TT in a hired boat. He also says he was loaned the production CS1 initially issued to Jimmy Guthrie and by chance I have a rather poor print of what is perhaps this very machine, with Stanley on board, at the '31 Scott Trial to which he refers. The registration of the bike is KS3900 and this was issued in the Roxburgh area - just a few miles from Guthrie's home town of Hawick. Note this shot shows quite well that the bike is fitted with the special 7 inch front brake used on the Works racing machines rather than the 8" Enfield type used on the production versions of the CS1. Cheers S”

15.9.86

Dear Mr Adams

Thank you for your order – your CS1 picture and your chatty letter.

As you remark, I had quite a lot to do with the CS1! I worked on the assembly of the first race model – what a last minute rush the final assembly was! Completed just after 1 o’clock on a Thursday in May 1927 – out into the street at the back of the Norton factory – near the centre of Birmingham – a push start and full throttle in 1st gear – into 2nd – brakes – turn around and back to the factory rear entrance where a lorry was waiting. Up into the lorry, where a mechanic was waiting to drain off the fuel as we raced to the central rail station to catch the 2 o’clock train for London and Harwich for the night boat from Harwich to the Hook of Holland – then a full day by rail to Stuttgart in S. Germany for its first race!

Practice Saturday morning and the race on Sunday – I led easily until I broke a gudgeon pin (USA wrist pin?)! Back to the factory for a quick modification and then the CS1 led the field for the 1927 Season.

At the London Motorcycle Show in November 1927 the first production model was on show. Jimmy Guthrie was signed up for the 1928 team and Nortons sent him that machine so “that he could learn to ride a Norton!”

September 1928 the Company replaced my ‘hack’ “Model 18” with that bike and I used it in almost all types of event until I left the Company at the end of the Season 1933.

Although she was not designed for trials – a ground clearance of about 3 ½ inches – I was most successful and was Trials Champion of Ireland three years – local road races, sand races and cross-country events solo and sidecar – sometimes with a high compression piston and Alcohol fuel – what a bike! And never let me down. I think that her best performance was fastest time in the famous (notorious!) Scott Trial in 1931 – that was about 50/60 miles over the open Yorkshire Moors – I could go on for pages! They don’t make bikes like that today! Thanks again for your support.

Sincerely yours

Stanley Woods

PS Bikes like that! The 500cc Velocette that I rode in the 1979 Classic Lap (“Geriatric TT”) and also in 1980 – 81 – 82 and 83 was the bike I raced in the 1937, 8 and 9 Senior TT – Raced after the war and is still good for 125 MPH - and happy at that. SW

1935 CS1 Norton - SOLD

This 1935 CS1 is SOLD for sale at Yesterdays; it looks very decent to me.

The Junior TT Assen, 26th of June 1937

The brochure; someone took it for granted that a Norton would win!

Dutch rider Bakker Schut with his Model 40 Norton.

Dutch rider Piet van Wijngaarden again, with his 350cc International factory racer; note the many trick bits compared to Bakker Schut's Norton above; rear suspension, square cylinder head, large front brake, magnesium crankcase, rev counter... I can see at least four other Nortons behind him.

Freddy Frith working on his bike and chatting with Joe Craig. The Norton looks identical to Piet's motorcycle.

Dutch champion Piet van Wijngaarden and the winner that day, John 'Crasher' White; Joe Craig stands between them. The rider on the left is Lo Simons with his 250cc Excelsior. On the right are Walther Winkler and his 250cc DKW.

Front forks

Finding out what type of front forks should grace your vintage Norton is not easy. Numerous designs have been used and some look quite similar while there may be many differences in the details. Reece sent me a few pics of his collection of vintage front forks and a description. Reece:"...and I don't want to put too many years and models on these as I guess any bike could be ordered with anything and will open a can of worms!"

No 1. Druids. c1923-1925. Has a front brake anchor point.
No 2. Druid. Late 1920s. Round tube, no tapering.
No 3. Webb. Standard weight, tapered tubes.
No 4. Webb. Heavy weight. Heavy weight forks have larger tapered tube, 4" damper discs instead of 3", larger diameter spindles etc.Note the 'modern' mudguard bracket
No 5. Norton. 1934 on. (note check springs, splayed legs, two grease nipples top-front spindle, left side brake anchor)
No 6. Webb. Standard weight. Early 1930s. Similar to number 3 but with small differences.
No 7. Druid. Early 1920s. Mk II, mainly fitted to Big Four and 17C models.

...and Martin's suggestions:

"Just a few random thoughts re forks. I concur with your remark about the wide variety of forks fitted to vintage Nortons over the years. It is fair to say that hardly two are the same. However, up to 1924, most Nortons were fitted with standard sidespring Druids of middleweight or heavyweight pattern (fork No 1). The belt drive bikes seem to have lighter weight forks, but probably still called middleweight by Druid. Main difference between the two is the width of the blades and the diameter of the pivot spindles.

In the early 20s a new design was introduced by Druid called the 'Mk II' in which the lower links pass through a secondary linkage which carries two tension springs up the centre which allow the forks to wobble horizontally as well as vertically. Sounds like a plate of jelly and handles like one too! These were mainly fitted to the bigger sidevalve bikes like the Big Four as they suited sidecar and other heavy use. (fork No 7).

The Webb single spring design (fork No 3) came in around late 1924 for the OHV bikes and was a huge improvement for those that tried them but not everyone was convinced, like Graham Walker who insisted on keeping on with the sidespring design. The early ones (1924 and 1925) had flat fork damper plates without turned over edges and then in 1926 they introduced the familiar spinners to apply the damper spring pressure and added the turned over edges so the friction discs are hidden from view and road dirt. These are easily recognised as the blades have straight (ie not tapered) tubes and are also parallel sided not splayed out. They look quite light and they are, and were superseded by heavier forks with tapered tubes. There is a man in New Zealand who makes both types of damper plate in case someone needs such things...

In about 1926, the sidespring Druids with round front tube and oval rear tube were replaced by the 'RT' (round tube) design (fork No 2) using heavyweight round tubes front and rear and in a diamond shape not the familiet triangle. These were fitted to all the sidevalve models until the early 30s as far as I know, and are sound forks if a little short action as the spings are far stiffer than the long single central spring of the Webbs, and they have little or no dampers fitted.

The parallel blade Webb design (fork No 4) came in for the first of the cammies, the CS1, and was then adopted on the late 20s OHV bikes. It is a lot heavier than for No 3. Fork No 5 is the post 1933 check spring design which carried on right till the end of girders in 1946 with one or two small variations and weight differences...

Here endeth my halfpennyworth on girder forks...

Martin

PS In Scotland we have a national drink (apart from whisky) called 'Irn Bru', which it is claimed is 'Made in Scotland frae Girders'... Perhaps this explains why they are so hard to find these days!!

Stanley Woods, Model 30, 1933

Stanley on a 1933 Model 30 International. (Thanks Wim)

11th Juli 1936, Dutch TT

Theo Zwolle, Dutch champion, on his 500cc M30 International.

Brown & Barlow Ltd carburetters

Giulio, owner of this 1924 Model 18 Norton sent me these pics to enquire whether this carb should be fitted to his Norton.

Simon: "The carburetter is a B & B but not the type fitted to OHV Nortons in 1924 as far as I know. It is an earlier version and I think was used on some Nortons and doubtless many other bikes, up to and including 1923. Above an excerpt from the 1924 B & B brochure which shows the 2 lever Sports Model used on most OHV Nortons during the mid twenties. The illustration shows the carburetter fitted with a top feed float chamber. Nortons used the bottom feed version."